Ville describes a team that had divided code ownership, where members were reluctant to share or modify each other’s work. This fostered fear, mistrust, and a defensive approach to development. Ville explains how this pattern of component segregation led to silos and distrust. He outlines actionable steps for rebuilding trust, such as adopting robust testing practices, implementing an internal open-source model, and encouraging ensemble programming. By fostering a culture of shared ownership, teams can collaborate more effectively and develop higher-quality software.
Self-reflection Question:
How can testing and collaboration frameworks help build trust within your team?
Ville recommends Peter Drucker’s Innovation and Entrepreneurship, a timeless classic that provides a comprehensive understanding of the purpose of business—creating and retaining customers. Ville shares how this book, which he encountered during a case-study-based innovation course, shaped his approach to thinking about innovation in the big picture. He emphasizes how important it is for Scrum Masters to view their work through a broader lens to support product and customer success.
[The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]
Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she’s caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn’t just about the product—it’s about the people.
🚨 Will Angela’s coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue.
[The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]
About Ville Reijonen
Ville is a seasoned Agilist and pattern enthusiast. He has co-authored two books—one on distributed machine control system patterns and another on Scrum patterns. Ville is passionate about discovering patterns in various contexts and currently works as a freelance coach, empowering individuals and teams by fostering focus and understanding.
You can link with Ville Reijonen on LinkedIn.
Read the full Show Notes and search through the world’s largest audio library on Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes.
In this episode, Ville shares a story from a full system rewrite project where conflicts between the Product Owner (PO) and the team created significant challenges. The lack of collaboration led to a stressful big-bang release with numerous post-launch issues. Ville explains how misaligned team dynamics can derail progress and highlights the importance of involving beta users and advocating for customer-centric testing. He also shares practical tips, such as engaging antagonistic testers to uncover potential flaws early and fostering PO-team collaboration to build trust and resilience.
Self-reflection Question:
How can you foster a culture of collaboration between the PO and the team to avoid conflicts during critical projects?
[The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]
Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she’s caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn’t just about the product—it’s about the people.
🚨 Will Angela’s coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue.
[The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]
About Ville Reijonen
Ville is a seasoned Agilist and pattern enthusiast. He has co-authored two books—one on distributed machine control system patterns and another on Scrum patterns. Ville is passionate about discovering patterns in various contexts and currently works as a freelance coach, empowering individuals and teams by fostering focus and understanding.
You can link with Ville Reijonen on LinkedIn.
In this CTO Series episode, we sit down with Dan Hollinger, an accomplished engineering leader passionate about fostering empathy, transparency, and trust in tech teams. Dan shares pivotal lessons from his career, from building scalable automation systems to navigating complex leadership challenges. We cover key strategies for aligning tech initiatives with business goals, fostering collaboration, and ensuring long-term technical health.
“Enable your humans to focus on the interesting work—automation should take care of the rest.”
Dan recounts his transformative experience at CCP Games, makers of EVE Online, where a robust test automation system changed his perspective on scaling technical processes. This role introduced him to the power of automation in freeing up engineers to focus on more exploratory and impactful tasks. He emphasizes how empowering self-directed teams with high-level vision statements enables creativity and innovation.
“Always retro your processes—don’t let them run on autopilot.”
Dan explains the importance of self-correcting processes, using the SEV (Side Event) system as an example. He highlights how retrospectives can improve response times and prevent future crises. For Dan, consistent reviews are the key to maintaining agile, resilient systems that adapt to evolving needs.
“There are no enemies—treat your colleagues like allies working toward a common goal.”
In cross-functional environments, Dan’s mantra is to focus on the project and maintain open communication. Drawing from his experience in gaming, where multiple departments collaborate on creative projects, he underscores the importance of empathy and curiosity. Asking questions and breaking down solutions into smaller, reviewable pieces can diffuse conflict and build trust.
“The lifespan of the solution dictates the scope of the work.”
Dan shares his approach to strategic roadmapping by considering the expected longevity of technical solutions. He gives an example of building a feature flag system for a game studio that needed to support a long-term vision while adapting to a new game engine. His advice: break large goals into smaller, adaptable increments that align with future changes.
“Trust is your greatest currency during periods of uncertainty.”
Dan reflects on a particularly challenging period when a leadership change caused a significant exodus of engineers at his company, leaving him with only one engineer. Despite the setback, Dan leaned into transparency and empathy, earning the trust of departing team members, which helped him transfer knowledge and rebuild the team.
“My role expanded from leading an engineering team to caring about the morale of the entire company.”
A surprising revelation for Dan was realizing the broader impact of his leadership on non-engineering teams. He discusses how this shift required him to listen to and support colleagues across all departments, emphasizing the value of empathy-driven leadership.
“The DORA metrics help us measure what really matters for technical health.”
Dan highlights the book Accelerate by Nicole Forsgren et al., which introduced him to the DORA (DevOps Research and Assessment) metrics. These metrics help organizations measure software delivery performance and technical health, offering a data-driven approach to evaluate progress and identify improvement areas.
About Dan Hollinger
Dan Hollinger is a proven engineering leader who champions empowerment through support, empathy, and transparency. He fosters a culture of trust, prioritizing alignment over dictation. Technically adept, Dan advocates for automatable solutions and a blameless environment, ensuring his team thrives both personally and professionally in a collaborative space.
You can link with Dan Hollinger on LinkedIn.
In this BONUS episode, we sit down with Katrina Clokie, a seasoned leader in strategy, change management, and building inclusive teams. Katrina shares pivotal moments in her career, offers practical leadership insights, and discusses her role as Chief Technology and Product Officer (CTPO), where she’s balancing innovation with business objectives. Whether you’re an aspiring tech leader or looking to sharpen your leadership toolkit, Katrina’s wisdom will inspire you to embrace growth, resilience, and collaboration.
“Look for roles you can’t fully do yet—it’s the best way to grow.”
Katrina reflects on a transformative moment early in her career when a mentor from the shipping industry encouraged her to seek out challenging roles that would push her growth. This advice set her on the path to engineering management and C-level leadership. She shares how fostering curiosity and pursuing conversations about topics she didn’t yet fully understand has kept her continually learning.
“Ask yourself: where do I feel stretched? That’s often where the best growth opportunities lie.”
“We needed both a unified vision and an efficient structure to remain competitive.”
Katrina discusses why her company created the CTPO role and how it reflects the size and growth stage of the organization. With no prior head of product, Katrina leaned into her experience while recognizing the importance of partnering with skilled product managers. She emphasizes the importance of having clear accountabilities and embracing growth within the role.
“The key is knowing when to lead and when to lean on your team’s expertise.”
“Trade-offs are inevitable—make them strategically, not reactively.”
At Fergus, Katrina implemented clear guardrails, such as avoiding a complete rewrite of their decade-old monolith, focusing instead on retiring components that hindered stability and developer experience. She shares how they allocate 60% of engineering capacity to strategic initiatives and 40% to ongoing business needs, ensuring tech and business priorities stay aligned.
“Guardrails help teams make decisions that align with the big picture without constant oversight.”
“Healthy conflict is necessary—escalation usually signals a breakdown in structure.”
Katrina describes how she structured cross-functional teams with clear goals and metrics to foster collaboration and ensure diverse perspectives are represented. She highlights the importance of empathy and role-modeling constructive conflict resolution at senior levels.
“A well-designed structure turns potential conflict into productive problem-solving.”
“Roadmaps should guide—not handcuff—teams to long-term commitments.”
Katrina’s approach to roadmapping balances transparency and adaptability. By reserving only 60% of capacity for roadmap initiatives and keeping annual plans intentionally light, her teams can pivot when necessary without overcommitting. Frequent, smaller releases (up to 160 changes per month) help deliver value continuously.
“Leave room in your roadmap to handle surprises without derailing progress.”
“Avoid constant recruiting—it can burn out your leaders and upset team dynamics.”
Drawing from her experience at Xero, Katrina advises against an “always-on” recruitment strategy, which can overwhelm hiring managers and disrupt team cohesion. Instead, she recommends batch hiring and partnering with finance and talent teams to manage hiring budgets in stages.
“Hiring in waves allows teams to stabilize and thrive, rather than constantly adjusting.”
“Shifting from hyper-growth to steady growth meant saying ‘no’ more often and being precise.”
Katrina shares how transitioning from an environment of rapid scaling to a more constrained SaaS company required a shift in her approach to decision-making. She focused on making the business context clear to her team, fostering trust and transparency in her decision-making process.
“When people understand the ‘why’ behind constraints, they’re more likely to trust the process.”
Katrina shares the books that have shaped her leadership journey:
“Great leadership isn’t innate—it’s learned through mentorship, reflection, and resources.”
From her experience at global companies to her current role, Katrina’s insights on transparency, collaboration, and strategic trade-offs provide a blueprint for navigating the complexities of tech leadership.
“Leadership isn’t about having all the answers—it’s about empowering your team and staying open to learning.”
About Katrina Clokie
Katrina Clokie is a respected leader in strategy, change management, and building inclusive teams. A keynote speaker at international conferences, she is passionate about leadership and communication. Her book, A Practical Guide to Testing in DevOps, has reached over 7,000 readers. In 2018, she was a finalist for New Zealand’s Inspiring Individual of the Year Award.
In this BONUS episode, we sit down with Ismo Aro, CTO and partner at NorthCode, to delve into the transformative power of Open Strategy in the tech world. Ismo shares his journey from corporate roles at Nokia and Ericsson to becoming a full-time entrepreneur, and he unpacks how his approach to leadership evolved with the rise of agile methodologies, test automation, and cloud transformation. This episode is packed with actionable insights for anyone looking to modernize their company’s strategy and foster a culture of transparency and co-ownership.
“When I joined the agile pilot team, it felt like discovering the way software development should always be done—release early, get feedback fast, and improve continuously.”
Ismo reflects on his early days at Nokia, where he began as a test engineer in a traditional waterfall environment. He describes how the shift to agile methodologies transformed the way teams communicated and collaborated. When he joined a pilot project for Scrum, he realized the value of fast feedback loops and early releases. This experience laid the foundation for his future focus on continuous integration and test automation.
Key Takeaway: Adopting agile frameworks can improve workflows by shortening feedback loops and promoting direct communication.
“Open Strategy means involving everyone in shaping the direction of the company—not just receiving updates but truly co-creating the future.”
At NorthCode, Open Strategy is a cornerstone of their operations. Ismo explains how they empower employees by making strategy-building a transparent and collaborative process. The company’s structure includes a parent company and subsidiaries where employees are also co-owners. Revenue-sharing ensures that when the business succeeds, everyone benefits directly.
Key Elements of Open Strategy:
Transparency: Strategy is made visible through a kanban board and KPIs accessible to all.
Ownership: Subsidiary team members can own up to 80% of their company.
Profit-sharing: 80% of client revenue goes to the subsidiary, and dividends are shared annually.
“By aligning incentives and opening up the strategy process, you create a culture where employees don’t just work for you—they work with you.”
“We make ideas visible and let them evolve until they’re ready for execution.”
Ismo outlines the company’s approach to strategy using a high-level roadmap and clear metrics to track progress. The focus is on organic growth through subsidiaries, with a benchmark of starting a new subsidiary once a team reaches 20 people. The company also uses “business spikes”—short, low-cost experiments to test new ideas.
Practical Tip: A business spike allows you to explore an idea quickly without committing significant resources, making it easier to pivot when necessary.
“Some people want to co-create, while others prefer to focus on their work—and both are valid.”
Ismo acknowledges that not everyone in the organization is equally interested in strategic discussions, and that’s okay. Open Strategy doesn’t require everyone to participate equally—it provides opportunities for involvement at different levels. The key is fostering an environment where insights and information flow freely from the ground up, rather than top-down mandates.
Key Insight: Open Strategy thrives when participation is voluntary and inclusive, rather than forced.
“We believe in showing our utilization rates openly because our people have a stake in the results.”
To measure success, NorthCode tracks KPIs such as revenue, profit, and utilization rates. Unlike traditional consulting companies that keep these metrics private, NorthCode shares them openly to build trust and foster a sense of ownership. Monthly meetings focus on tactical updates, while strategic sessions aim to inspire employees to contribute ideas for the company’s future.
Fun Practice: The “nightmare competitor” exercise encourages the team to imagine an ideal competitor and then adopt some of their hypothetical best practices into NorthCode’s strategy.
“When people can see the metrics that matter, they’re more motivated to take ownership of their impact.”
“We take concepts from corporate books and tailor them to fit our context as a growing, agile company.”
Ismo cites two key books that shaped his thinking: Open Strategy and The 6 Enablers of Business Agility. However, he emphasizes the importance of adapting corporate-level concepts to suit smaller, more agile organizations. He believes that while agile is mainstream in software development, many companies remain rigid in their overall strategy.
Recommended Reads:
Key Reflection: Ismo’s approach underscores the importance of agility not just in software but in company operations and strategy-making.
Final Tip: Embrace modern tools like Large Language Models (LLMs) to streamline workflows—but remember, they enhance your work, not replace it.
About Ismo Aro
Ismo Aro is the CTO and partner at NorthCode, specializing in software development and workflow modernization. With experience at Nokia and Ericsson, he has held various roles, from test engineer to entrepreneur. Ismo co-founded NorthCode after selling a previous company and also served as Chairman of the Robot Framework Foundation, contributing to the growth of the widely used open-source test automation framework.
You can link with Ismo Aro on LinkedIn.
In this BONUS episode, we dive into the journey of Toni Ala-Piirto, a seasoned software leader with 15 years of experience designing and implementing distributed systems. Toni opens up about pivotal lessons from his leadership career, balancing tech strategy with business goals, and the nuances of scaling engineering teams during rapid growth. Whether you’re a CTO, a team lead, or a tech enthusiast, this conversation is packed with practical insights.
“Leadership isn’t built in a single defining moment but shaped by many experiences.”
Toni recounts a key challenge early in his career involving a major performance issue for a customer. This experience taught him the importance of viewing systems holistically rather than focusing solely on individual contributions. His “boring” leadership style—marked by forward-thinking and crisis prevention—emphasizes preparation and identifying risks without over-engineering solutions.
“Technology vision and business strategy should speak the same language.”
Toni highlights the importance of close collaboration with product managers, sales, and finance to ensure tech strategy aligns with broader business goals. Regular cross-department discussions foster trust and ensure that the product roadmap is both innovative and achievable.
Key Practice: Build relationships with key stakeholders through daily touchpoints to create alignment.
“Short-term details drive long-term visions.”
Toni explains their approach to roadmapping, with detailed 6-month plans that address “how” to achieve goals and a broader vision for the longer term. This allows the team to stay agile while keeping future innovations in view.
Pro Tip: Avoid spending excessive time on estimations; use past experience to guide epic-level planning.
“The first six months are about execution—the rest is about imagining what’s possible.”
“The true challenge of scaling is transferring knowledge while preserving team culture.”
Toni reflects on the growth journey from a small team to a larger organization. As the team grew, onboarding and knowledge transfer became crucial. His solution? Pair testing and collaborative learning to help developers understand the product deeply, not just the code.
Tactical Tips:
Implement a “test buddy” system for collaborative testing and learning.
Encourage developers to test the product to build domain knowledge and foster cross-functional understanding.
“Your people need to understand the product—not just the code—to scale effectively.”
“Growth changes culture—how you hire and lead defines the next chapter.”
Toni shares how adding new team members can shift team dynamics. The key to sustaining a positive culture is hiring individuals who take ownership and serve as role models. Leaders should seek out those who aim to improve the team, not just perform their tasks.
“The best hires don’t just do their job—they make the whole team better.”
“CTOs operate at the intersection of tech and business—a shift from pure development.”
Toni admits that stepping into the CTO role required him to expand his understanding of business operations, strategic planning, and cross-functional collaboration. He emphasizes that this broadened perspective is essential for impactful decision-making.
“The biggest shift for me was seeing the business as a whole—not just the tech stack.”
“Understanding team dynamics is as crucial as technical expertise.”
Toni cites Patrick Lencioni’s The Five Dysfunctions of a Team as a pivotal read. The book shaped his approach to fostering accountability and ensuring team commitment. Toni underscores that accountability isn’t about blame—it’s about ownership and follow-through.
“Growth requires not just more people but the right investments.”
Toni discusses integrating talent strategy into roadmaps by aligning with business goals, including company size and revenue targets. Strategic hiring and investment in growth ensure that the team remains equipped to deliver on future plans.
About Toni Ala-Piirto
Toni Ala-Piirto is a seasoned software professional with 15 years of experience leading architecture and design for projects of all sizes. He excels in creating practical, fit-for-purpose distributed systems and is known for his hands-on approach and commitment to continuous improvement. Toni consistently delivers solutions that meet specific project needs while aligning with broader business objectives.
You can link with Toni Ala-Piirto on LinkedIn.a
In this BONUS episode, we sit down with Sergey, the forward-thinking CTO of CrateDB, to unpack his journey from Nokia to CrateDB and his leadership philosophy that blends technical expertise with strategic foresight. We dive into the key moments that shaped his career, the challenges of scaling technology in a competitive market, and how Sergey aligns his team’s efforts with broader business goals while staying adaptable in an ever-evolving tech landscape.
“Being a cheerleader, servant, and strategist for your team creates an environment where innovation can thrive.”
Sergey shares how working at Nokia with an inspiring people manager, Sotiris, influenced his leadership approach. Sotiris embodied servant leadership and made strategic thinking a team-wide responsibility. Sergey reflects on how this mindset helped him approach his current role at CrateDB, emphasizing the importance of not only building great products but ensuring they resonate in the market through thoughtful sales and marketing alignment.
“The best leaders help their teams see what’s next—not just solve today’s problems.”
“For technical products, adoption is not just about features—it’s about connecting with both developers and decision-makers.”
Sergey breaks down the challenges of achieving product-market fit for developer-centric solutions like CrateDB. He explains the dual approach of engaging both top-down decision-makers, like CTOs, and bottom-up developer communities. By drawing from his startup experience, Sergey underscores the importance of building trust and delivering a developer experience that wins over early adopters.
“The real challenge is bridging the gap between leadership adoption and the developers who use the product every day.”
“AI’s true transformation lies in how it enhances the products we already use, often invisibly.”
When asked about AI’s current role, Sergey reflects on the potential of AI-powered tools to transform workflows over the next few years. While not yet life-changing for his daily routine, he anticipates that AI’s influence will soon be felt through the optimization of background processes in everyday tools and databases.
“The future isn’t about flashy AI features—it’s about smarter tools that simplify complex workflows.”
“A strong strategy needs to be a story that teams can rally around and imagine themselves in.”
Sergey details CrateDB’s unique approach to strategic planning, inspired by open-source RFCs (Request for Comments). Instead of rigid OKRs, they craft stories that clarify priorities and invite feedback from across the organization. He highlights the importance of quarterly check-ins and building checkpoints to validate assumptions along the way.
Key tips in this segment:
Document the assumptions behind the strategy.
Break initiatives into steps to test their feasibility.
Avoid deadline-driven development; focus on value-driven milestones.
“Collaboration thrives when both sides understand the trade-offs involved in strategic decisions.”
Sergey explains how collaboration between engineering and business leaders is fostered through transparency and communication. Product managers and engineering leads play key roles in advocating for priorities and ensuring alignment across teams. Sergey emphasizes the value of making trade-offs explicit to avoid silos.
“The best partnerships between tech and business come from mutual understanding—not just of goals, but of constraints.”
“A good strategy diagnoses the situation, sets guiding policies, and outlines coherent actions.”
Sergey highlights the importance of competitive intelligence in staying ahead of market trends without reacting impulsively. In the world of databases, long adoption cycles offer the advantage of thoughtful strategic planning. He references the book Good Strategy/Bad Strategy and describes how CrateDB maintains an evergreen list of initiatives that can be prioritized when needed.
“Don’t just chase trends—create a strategy that withstands change by focusing on long-term coherence.”
“The CTO role is often ambiguous—define it based on your organization’s needs.”
Sergey candidly discusses the challenge of imposter syndrome and the ambiguity that comes with the CTO title. He outlines two common archetypes: the technical expert versus the team builder and cultural leader. He stresses the importance of adjusting the role to the organization’s maturity and goals.
“Your leadership role isn’t static—adapt your approach to meet your organization where it is.”
“Most tech problems are people problems disguised as engineering issues.”
Sergey shares the books that influenced his leadership style:
Peopleware by Tom DeMarco: Reinforces the idea that technical challenges often stem from team dynamics.
Drive by Daniel Pink: Highlights the importance of autonomy, mastery, and purpose in motivating teams.
Good to Great by Jim Collins: Explores what makes some companies thrive while others stagnate.
About Sergey Gerasimenko
Sergey is the innovative CTO of CrateDB, leading the charge in real-time analytics and hybrid search. Previously, he was VP of Engineering at MongoDB, shaping the edge device strategy, and at Realm, a leading open-source mobile/embedded database acquired by MongoDB in 2019. With a career spanning groundbreaking roles at Brainly and Nokia, Sergey co-founded two companies and holds a patent. His leadership continues to push the boundaries of tech innovation.
You can link with Sergey Gerasimenko on LinkedIn.
Welcome, Agile friends! In this episode, I had the pleasure of sitting down with Nick Hughes, the founder of Founders Live, a global startup community now operating in more than 100 cities and 50 countries. Our conversation explored what it really takes to build a business and how the principles of agility can help entrepreneurs adapt, iterate, and thrive.
If you’ve ever wondered how to sharpen your message, build resilience in the face of setbacks, and foster meaningful connections in the startup world, this episode is for you!
“Test, learn, iterate, and grow. That’s how I built Founders Live.”
Nick’s story began over 10 years ago when he noticed something missing in the entrepreneurial world—a supportive community where early-stage founders could connect, learn, and grow together. As a founder himself, he knew firsthand how isolating the startup journey could be.
He decided to experiment with an idea, and it worked. Founders Live has since become a thriving global movement where entrepreneurs pitch their ideas, connect with like-minded people, and celebrate innovation in an engaging, fun atmosphere.
Each Founders Live event follows a simple but powerful format: five founders deliver 99-second pitches, followed by four minutes of audience Q&A. Then, the crowd votes on the winner. Add some networking, food, and drinks, and you’ve got a recipe for an unforgettable experience!
The takeaway here? Test small, see what works, and refine from there.
“It’s not easy to create your 99-second pitch. But that time frame forces founders to really think: What is my message?”
Nick’s 99-second pitch format is more than a clever gimmick—it’s a forcing function for founders to get crystal clear about their message. In a short window of time, founders must distill their big idea into something precise, engaging, and impactful.
Many founders tell Nick that while it’s nerve-wracking at first, they walk away feeling more confident and impressed with their own ability to communicate under pressure. It’s not just about pitching—it’s about building communication agility and clarity of purpose.
“If you figure out ways to help people and open doors for them, it comes back to you tenfold.”
One of the most valuable aspects of Founders Live is its emphasis on connection. Nick shared that many of the most successful founders he knows have built networks by being generous—by “opening doors” for others. Whether it’s offering advice, making introductions, or helping someone troubleshoot a challenge, those who give tend to receive tenfold in return.
His advice for founders? Show up, participate, and look for ways to add value to your community. Authenticity and generosity go a long way in building strong relationships that will support your growth.
“Agility is looking at things as experiments—identify what works, keep that, and stop what isn’t working.”
We also dove into the mindset that helps founders bounce back from setbacks. For Nick, agility means viewing everything as an experiment. When things don’t go as planned, the question isn’t “Why did this happen to me?” but rather “What can I learn from this, and how can I adjust?”
Successful founders are constantly iterating—testing, learning, and evolving. The entrepreneurial journey isn’t a straight line; it’s a cycle of experimentation and improvement. Agility doesn’t just happen in the product—it starts with how you frame your challenges and your willingness to pivot when needed.
“We all want creators in the world, but it’s a tough road. You need to build something that adds value before pitching it.”
According to Nick, many first-time founders enter the startup world with unrealistic expectations. Building a business isn’t just about pitching your idea to investors—it’s about creating something valuable, getting traction, and proving adoption first. If you don’t have traction or proof points, you’re burning bridges by pitching too early.
His advice? Focus on solving real problems and showing early growth before you seek funding. When you walk into the room with evidence that people love your product, your pitch becomes much stronger—and much harder to ignore.
Not every entrepreneur is working outside the corporate world—some are internal innovators looking to make a difference within their organizations. For those intrapreneurs, Nick had some great advice: define your opportunity clearly, understand your company’s risk tolerance, and align your goals with measurable outcomes.
If you want to pitch new ideas inside a company, start by identifying what success would look like and communicating that vision effectively. Intrapreneurship thrives when there’s clarity around expectations and potential rewards.
When I asked Nick for a resource recommendation, he shared the book “The Second Mountain: The Quest for a Moral Life” by David Brooks. It’s an inspiring read about finding purpose and meaning by building something bigger than yourself—a fitting message for entrepreneurs seeking to create meaningful impact.
We closed with Nick’s final piece of advice: “Test, learn, iterate, and grow. That’s how I built Founders Live.”
This simple but powerful mantra reminds us that agility isn’t just a process—it’s a mindset. Whether you’re launching your own startup or driving innovation within a larger organization, success comes from being open to experimentation and continuous improvement.
About Nick Hughes
Nick Hughes is the founder of Founders Live, a global community and event platform for entrepreneurs, now active in over 100 cities across 50 countries. With a background in founding companies, Nick created Founders Live to foster connection, mentorship, and growth for startups worldwide.
To learn more about Nick and Founders Live, visit FoundersLive.com or connect with Nick Hughes on LinkedIn.
Read the full Show Notes and search through the world’s largest audio library on Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes.
Ellen describes an exemplary Product Owner (PO) who actively engaged with customers, often bringing the team along to meet users. This practice fostered a shared understanding of customer needs and amplified creativity within the team. A great PO promotes collaboration and ensures that the team is aligned with the product vision, enabling innovative solutions and meaningful outcomes.
A poor PO, Ellen explains, is one who lacks decision-making authority. In one case, a PO served merely as a messenger for the CEO, repeatedly deferring to higher-ups for answers. This lack of empowerment hindered team progress and frustrated the development process. Ellen underscores that Scrum Masters play a crucial role in supporting POs to ensure they can fulfill their responsibilities effectively.
Self-reflection Question: How can you support Product Owners to strengthen their ability to make informed decisions?
[The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]
Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she’s caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn’t just about the product—it’s about the people.
🚨 Will Angela’s coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue.
[The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]
About Ellen Grove
Ellen is a skilled business agility coach, trainer, and facilitator, helping teams and leaders foster collaboration, productivity, and meaningful change. With expertise in Agile, Scrum, Lean, and systems coaching, she partners with diverse organizations—from startups to global enterprises—to navigate complex challenges, build resilience, and drive impactful organizational transformations across all departments.
You can link with Ellen Grove on LinkedIn.
Read the full Show Notes and search through the world’s largest audio library on Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes.
Ellen defines success for Scrum Masters as the team developing a stronger sense of agency and self-sufficiency. When teams begin asking better questions and demonstrate ownership of their processes, it indicates growth and maturity. Scrum Masters must model this behavior by being thoughtful, curious, and consistently asking "why" to encourage a coaching mindset. This approach enables teams to think critically and solve problems collaboratively.
Self-reflection Question: How can you model the behavior you want to see in your team during retrospectives and beyond?
Ellen recommends using Retromat, a versatile online tool that provides a variety of retrospective formats to match the specific needs of your team. Ellen values mixing up retrospective formats to keep sessions engaging and contextually relevant. She stresses the importance of paying attention to all steps of a retrospective process, ensuring teams reflect, ideate, and act effectively.
[The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]
Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she’s caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn’t just about the product—it’s about the people.
🚨 Will Angela’s coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue.
[The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]
About Ellen Grove
Ellen is a skilled business agility coach, trainer, and facilitator, helping teams and leaders foster collaboration, productivity, and meaningful change. With expertise in Agile, Scrum, Lean, and systems coaching, she partners with diverse organizations—from startups to global enterprises—to navigate complex challenges, build resilience, and drive impactful organizational transformations across all departments.
You can link with Ellen Grove on LinkedIn.
Read the full Show Notes and search through the world’s largest audio library on Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes.
Ellen shares her insights on managing organizational change effectively. She explains how Scrum and Lean Change Management offer tools to make the "change work" visible alongside project work. By putting infrastructure in place to support this dual focus, stakeholders and teams can gain transparency and clarity. Ellen emphasizes that lasting change requires collaboration and visibility, not isolation.
Self-reflection Question: How can you make the "change work" more visible in your organization?
[The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]
Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she’s caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn’t just about the product—it’s about the people.
🚨 Will Angela’s coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue.
[The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]
About Ellen Grove
Ellen is a skilled business agility coach, trainer, and facilitator, helping teams and leaders foster collaboration, productivity, and meaningful change. With expertise in Agile, Scrum, Lean, and systems coaching, she partners with diverse organizations—from startups to global enterprises—to navigate complex challenges, build resilience, and drive impactful organizational transformations across all departments.
You can link with Ellen Grove on LinkedIn.
Read the full Show Notes and search through the world’s largest audio library on Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes.
Ellen shares a story about coaching a team in a public sector enterprise working on a website project. Despite their commitment to Agile, the team’s disconnect from user feedback led them to build features that missed critical functionality. This stealthy anti-pattern—assuming "what should be done and why" without user input—resulted in wasted effort and budget. Ellen emphasizes the importance of direct feedback loops with real users, even for internal products.
Self-reflection Question: How can you ensure your team receives continuous feedback from real users to avoid building the wrong product?
Ellen highlights "Humble Inquiry," a transformative book that stresses the importance of relationships over tasks in solving problems. The book encourages leaders to build trust and respect through better questioning techniques. It challenges readers to rethink their interactions and adopt a stance of curiosity, fostering collaboration and understanding.
[The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]
Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she’s caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn’t just about the product—it’s about the people.
🚨 Will Angela’s coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue.
[The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]
About Ellen Grove
Ellen is a skilled business agility coach, trainer, and facilitator, helping teams and leaders foster collaboration, productivity, and meaningful change. With expertise in Agile, Scrum, Lean, and systems coaching, she partners with diverse organizations—from startups to global enterprises—to navigate complex challenges, build resilience, and drive impactful organizational transformations across all departments.
You can link with Ellen Grove on LinkedIn.
Read the full Show Notes and search through the world’s largest audio library on Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes.
Ellen reflects on her early experiences as a Scrum Master, facing challenges in an environment that resisted the introduction of Scrum. She shares valuable lessons about handling external resistance, managing personal expectations, and avoiding emotional burnout when navigating organizational change. Ellen emphasizes the importance of focusing on what can be influenced and detaching from outcomes beyond one’s control.
Self-reflection Question: How do you maintain focus and resilience when dealing with resistance to Scrum in your organization?
[The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]
Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she’s caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn’t just about the product—it’s about the people.
🚨 Will Angela’s coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue.
[The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]
About Ellen Grove
Ellen is a skilled business agility coach, trainer, and facilitator, helping teams and leaders foster collaboration, productivity, and meaningful change. With expertise in Agile, Scrum, Lean, and systems coaching, she partners with diverse organizations—from startups to global enterprises—to navigate complex challenges, build resilience, and drive impactful organizational transformations across all departments.
You can link with Ellen Grove on LinkedIn.
Read the full Show Notes and search through the world’s largest audio library on Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes.
Robert describes a great Product Owner as someone who immerses themselves in the team, fostering collaboration and ensuring quick market feedback.
By using tools like Story Mapping, these POs help teams focus on value while staying engaged and open to learning.
Bad Product Owners remain distant, throwing requirements “over the fence” without participating in the team’s efforts. This disconnect often leads to misalignment and poor outcomes.
For Scrum Masters and Agile Coaches, Robert suggests investigating the root cause of this distance and addressing it collaboratively.
[The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]
Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she’s caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn’t just about the product—it’s about the people.
🚨 Will Angela’s coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue.
[The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]
About Robert Finan
Robert has been working in IT for over 25 years, with the last decade spent deeply engaged in “messy” real-world Agile transformations. He documents his experiences in the Agile Drill Sergeant webcomic.
You can link with Robert Finan on LinkedIn.
Read the full Show Notes and search through the world’s largest audio library on Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes.
Robert defines Scrum Master success as driving impactful team improvements through small, focused changes.
By maintaining a backlog of improvement ideas and encouraging teams to experiment, Robert highlights the importance of measurable progress in both behavior and collaboration.
Robert recommends the Sailboat format, especially when working with new teams. By exploring current realities, future goals, and risks, this format provides rich insights and fosters alignment. The focus on improvement ensures actionable outcomes that resonate with team members.
[The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]
Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she’s caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn’t just about the product—it’s about the people.
🚨 Will Angela’s coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue.
[The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]
About Robert Finan
Robert has been working in IT for over 25 years, with the last decade spent deeply engaged in “messy” real-world Agile transformations. He documents his experiences in the Agile Drill Sergeant webcomic.
You can link with Robert Finan on LinkedIn.
Read the full Show Notes and search through the world’s largest audio library on Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes.
Robert discusses how top-down, project managed Agile transformations often fail to account for the complexity of change. By focusing on flexibility, inspect/adapt cycles, and bringing comfort to the change process, Scrum Masters can guide organizations away from one-size-fits-all solutions and toward the sustainable improvement that is the hallmark of Agile.
Self-reflection Question: How can you bring comfort to the change process in your organization?
[The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]
Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she’s caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn’t just about the product—it’s about the people.
🚨 Will Angela’s coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue.
[The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]
About Robert Finan
Robert has been working in IT for over 25 years, with the last decade spent deeply engaged in “messy” real-world Agile transformations. He documents his experiences in the Agile Drill Sergeant webcomic.
You can link with Robert Finan on LinkedIn.
Read the full Show Notes and search through the world’s largest audio library on Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes.
Robert shares a story about what happens when teams lack management support and the right environment to succeed. He emphasizes the importance of 1-on-1 conversations, addressing individual resistance, and focusing on what can be changed. Slowly building the right environment for our teams - Robert explains how - is how we help them succeed!
Robert recommends Crucial Conversations, which offers practical tools for handling high-stakes conversations in both personal and professional contexts. As facilitators, Scrum Masters can use this book to address situations where team members feel threatened, fostering better communication and collaboration.
[The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]
Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she’s caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn’t just about the product—it’s about the people.
🚨 Will Angela’s coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue.
[The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]
About Robert Finan
Robert has been working in IT for over 25 years, with the last decade spent deeply engaged in “messy” real-world Agile transformations. He documents his experiences in the Agile Drill Sergeant webcomic.
You can link with Robert Finan on LinkedIn.
Read the full Show Notes and search through the world’s largest audio library on Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes.
Robert shares his experience of burning out after just four months in a challenging Agile transformation. He reflects on the mistake of trying to push his vision without meeting the organization where it was. By facing embedded structures and resistance, Robert learned the value of pragmatism, experimentation, and nudging change instead of forcing it.
Self-reflection Question: Have you ever faced resistance when introducing change? How can you adjust your approach to meet people where they are?
[The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]
Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she’s caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn’t just about the product—it’s about the people.
🚨 Will Angela’s coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue.
[The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]
About Robert Finan
Robert has been working in IT for over 25 years, with the last decade spent deeply engaged in “messy” real-world Agile transformations. He documents his experiences in the Agile Drill Sergeant webcomic.
You can link with Robert Finan on LinkedIn.
In the grand finale of the “5 Wishes for 2025” series, Vasco Duarte tackles the chaotic nature of software development and why traditional project management just doesn’t cut it. Drawing on lessons from weather models, butterflies, and Agile practices, Vasco presents a bold manifesto for how we can thrive in uncertainty.
“Project management is like trying to predict where a butterfly will land after flying through a hurricane – good luck with that!”
Vasco begins with the story of Edward Lorenz, the MIT meteorologist who discovered what was later called the “butterfly effect.” This concept illuminates and explains the unpredictability of software development, where tiny changes can lead to massive, unexpected consequences – like a simple tweak spiraling into a full system refactor.
“Planning your year’s meals in January? That’s about as realistic as predicting October’s sushi cravings!”
Vasco humorously dismantles the premise of project management, which assumes stability, predictability, and complete information upfront. While Agile provides a more flexible approach, it’s often misused as “project management in disguise,” failing to unlock the true potential of adaptability.
“Loving Gantt charts is like loving fax machines – there’s a better way!”
Vasco outlines his four-point manifesto for how organizations can thrive in uncertainty:
Fund Software Incrementally: Treat funding like stock market investing – small, regular investments over time.
Think Like an Investor: Focus on maximizing returns, not rigidly executing plans.
Experiment by Default: Acknowledge that the best ideas come from testing and iterating.
Give Teams End-to-End Ownership: Empower teams to own their work from idea to delivery, eliminating micromanagement.
“Scrum teams in a project management organization are like race car drivers stuck in traffic jams – all that potential, nowhere to go!”
Vasco emphasizes that agility must extend beyond individual teams. Organizations need to embrace Agile principles at every level to avoid stifling innovation and potential. And his approach to funding and managing software investments does exactly that: bring agility to the decision making forums in the organization, instead of keeping it at the team level.
“Butterflies don’t follow project plans, and neither does software development!”
Vasco’s final wish for 2025 is for organizations to stop forcing software into rigid project management frameworks. Instead, they should embrace the unpredictable nature of development, leveraging incremental funding, iterative experimentation, and team empowerment to thrive in uncertainty.
“Want to see how real organizations are thriving in chaos? Join us in Tallinn!”
Vasco invites listeners to the Global Agile Summit 2025 in Tallinn, Estonia, where forward-thinking organizations will share their stories of breaking free from traditional project management. Holiday listeners can grab a 75% discounted Super Early Bird ticket at GlobalAgileSummit.com.
About Vasco Duarte
Vasco Duarte is a thought leader in the Agile space, co-founder of Agile Finland, and host of the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast, which has over 10 million downloads. Author of NoEstimates: How To Measure Project Progress Without Estimating, Vasco is a sought-after speaker and consultant helping organizations embrace Agile practices to achieve business success.
You can link with Vasco Duarte on LinkedIn.
In the fourth episode of the “5 Wishes for 2025” series, Vasco Duarte takes on a common yet overlooked productivity killer: the monster backlog. With humor, relatable analogies, and practical advice, Vasco shares how organizations can turn their overwhelming backlogs into powerful tools for focus and impact.
“Your backlog should be like your fridge, not your basement – keep only what you’ll use soon, not what you might need someday!”
Vasco opens by comparing bloated backlogs to storage boxes filled with old cables and chargers: seemingly useful but rarely touched. Sharing the story of Juha, a leader overwhelmed by a five-year backlog of epics, Vasco highlights how backlogs can grow out of control, becoming a source of stress rather than a tool for productivity.
“Your backlog should only contain work for the next 2-3 sprints. That’s it!”
Vasco introduces a game-changing rule of thumb:
Short-Term Focus: Limit the backlog to items that can be completed within the next 2-3 sprints.
Medium-Term Planning: Use a problem-centric roadmap to outline key issues to tackle in the next 6-9 months, and a technology strategy to align on longer term tech priorities (more on that in an upcoming episode)
Long-Term Vision: Create a clear vision document to connect today’s work to future goals.
By managing backlogs with these three distinct timelines, teams can regain clarity and focus without sacrificing strategic alignment.
“Think of it as three zoom levels on your product map – focus on what you need today, tomorrow, and the distant future.”
Vasco explains how a problem-centric roadmap helps teams prioritize medium-term goals by focusing on the most critical customer problems. Combined with a clear long-term vision, this roadmap empowers teams to align their efforts without being overwhelmed by irrelevant details.
“At conferences, I’ve met teams with 10-year-old backlog items – that’s like keeping your Y2K plans ‘just in case’!”
Vasco shares surprising stories of teams with decade-old backlog items. These “zombie tasks” highlight the need for a system to prevent backlogs from growing unchecked. Without proper management, backlogs can cause anxiety and hinder teams from delivering value.
“Let’s turn our backlogs back into the focusing tools they were meant to be.”
Vasco’s fourth wish for 2025 is to see teams use backlogs as powerful prioritization tools, not bottomless pits of forgotten ideas. By embracing a short-term backlog, medium-term roadmap, and long-term vision, teams can stay focused, aligned, and productive.
“Want to learn how real teams are taming their monster backlogs? Join us in Tallinn!”
Vasco invites listeners to the Global Agile Summit 2025 in Tallinn, Estonia, where teams will share practical strategies for managing backlogs effectively. Holiday listeners can snag a 75% discounted Super Early Bird ticket at GlobalAgileSummit.com.
About Vasco Duarte
Vasco Duarte is a thought leader in the Agile space, co-founder of Agile Finland, and host of the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast, which has over 10 million downloads. Author of NoEstimates: How To Measure Project Progress Without Estimating, Vasco is a sought-after speaker and consultant helping organizations embrace Agile practices to achieve business success.
You can link with Vasco Duarte on LinkedIn.
In the third episode of the “5 Wishes for 2025” series, Vasco Duarte takes aim at one of the most common anti-patterns in software development: the obsession with managing tasks instead of discovering what truly works.
He calls on teams to shift their mindset from backlog management to running experiments, creating a culture of learning and rapid innovation.
“Managing a backlog is like planning a road trip by focusing on the gas stops instead of the destination.”
Vasco reflects on how teams often lose sight of their goals, becoming bogged down in task management instead of pursuing real customer value. He humorously compares this approach to being a “backlog secretary,” organizing tasks while forgetting why the project began in the first place.
His solution? A radical shift from task obsession to a learning-first approach driven by rapid experiments.
“Why wait for weeks to learn something you could test in a day?”
Vasco shares real-world success stories of teams embracing a rapid experimentation mindset:
• The Skeptical Client: In just 48 hours, this team launched two market experiments and gained actionable feedback.
• The Experiment-First Startup: Meeting twice weekly to design and run experiments, this startup learns more in a week than most teams do in a month.
These examples showcase how rapid testing leads to faster learning and greater customer impact.
“Or as I like to call it, the ‘Question-Experiment-Insight’ cycle – it’s like having a GPS for product development.”
Vasco introduces a three-step approach to running experiments:
1. Start with a Concrete Goal: Define measurable business targets using a Business Value Equation.
2. Create a Metrics Tree: Break down goals into daily metrics that track progress.
3. Experiment, Experiment, Experiment: Test new features, tweaks, and ideas quickly to gain insights and adjust course.
He highlights a team’s transformation from a “feature factory” to “experiment mode,” where the Product Owner posed questions and the team creatively solved them. This cycle drives meaningful insights instead of aimless task completion.
“A backlog full of tasks is like a restaurant full of recipes – it means nothing until you know what your customers actually want to eat!”
Vasco’s third wish for 2025 is a world where teams prioritize learning over task management. By embracing the “Question-Experiment-Insight” cycle, teams can focus on solving customer problems and creating real value.
This mindset shift transforms teams from task managers into product scientists, driving faster, smarter innovation.
“Want to learn how real teams are running experiments and making an impact? Join us in Tallinn!”
Vasco invites listeners to the Global Agile Summit 2025 in Tallinn, Estonia, where teams will share stories about adopting rapid experimentation. Holiday listeners can snag a special “White Wednesday” deal: a 75% discount on tickets. Visit GlobalAgileSummit.com to claim your Super Early Bird ticket.
About Vasco Duarte
Vasco Duarte is a thought leader in the Agile space, co-founder of Agile Finland, and host of the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast, which has over 10 million downloads. Author of NoEstimates: How To Measure Project Progress Without Estimating, Vasco is a sought-after speaker and consultant helping organizations embrace Agile practices to achieve business success.
You can link with Vasco Duarte on LinkedIn.
In the second episode of the “5 Wishes for 2025” series, Vasco Duarte tackles one of the most persistent and damaging divides in software development: the wall between Product and Engineering teams. Through stories, metaphors, and real-world examples, Vasco challenges the status quo and paints a vision for seamless collaboration that drives innovation and value.
“It’s like having the ingredients and the recipe in separate rooms – how are you supposed to cook something amazing?”
Vasco begins by highlighting the invisible barriers that still exist between Product and Engineering teams in many organizations. These divisions stifle innovation and slow progress. Drawing parallels to outdated structures, Vasco recounts the struggle to integrate Product Owners into Scrum teams and how that barely scratched the surface of the larger issue.
He calls for a broader perspective: aligning the creative potential of engineering with the customer insights of product management to unlock real innovation.
“Not the mad scientist kind, but real, product-focused experiments that bring technical innovation and product leadership together.”
Vasco shares the success story of a client who created a dedicated experiments team. By combining technical expertise with clear product direction, they delivered rapid, value-driven results. This approach demonstrates the power of collaboration in turning ideas into impactful solutions.
“For the first time, Product and Engineering co-created a plan that aligned with strategic goals – no more top-down directives or forced OKRs!”
Another client reimagined their product planning process after attending a workshop. Instead of cascading initiatives from the top, they worked collaboratively from the ground up. This innovative approach allowed them to align with company goals while fostering ownership and creativity across teams.
“It’s like they turned the wall between Product and Engineering into a large living room where everyone works together.”
Vasco highlights an inspiring case from Berlin, where a company merged technical and product leadership into a single CTPO (Chief Technical and Product Officer) role. This structure bridges the gap, ensuring that both technical possibilities and customer needs are seamlessly aligned.
Catch Vasco’s interview with this trailblazing CTPO in the show notes to explore how this innovative approach is reshaping their organization.
“Product and Engineering are like coffee and milk – different, but together they make something special.”
Vasco’s vision for 2025 is a world where Product and Engineering work side-by-side in shared spaces of collaboration and value creation. He calls for a shift from siloed teams to integrated partnerships where both groups speak the same language – the language of value and impact.
The companies that embrace this shift will be the leaders of tomorrow, delivering innovation at the speed of market change.
“Innovation flows as freely as coffee at a developer conference when Product and Engineering collaborate.”
Vasco invites listeners to experience this transformation firsthand at the Global Agile Summit 2025 in Tallinn, Estonia. The summit will showcase real-world examples of organizations successfully adopting flow-based software delivery.
For holiday listeners, Vasco has a special gift: a Super Early Bird ticket with a 75% discount. Visit GlobalAgileSummit.com to grab your ticket and see what the future of software development looks like.
About Vasco Duarte
Vasco Duarte is a thought leader in the Agile space, co-founder of Agile Finland, and host of the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast, which has over 10 million downloads. Author of NoEstimates: How To Measure Project Progress Without Estimating, Vasco is a sought-after speaker and consultant helping organizations embrace Agile practices to achieve business success.
You can link with Vasco Duarte on LinkedIn.
In the kickoff episode of the “5 Wishes for 2025” series, Vasco Duarte dives into a topic close to his heart: why managing software like construction projects leads to failure. Drawing on his experience in the Agile community and sharing compelling real-world examples, Vasco introduces a new perspective on how software development should flow, adapt, and continuously deliver value.
“Software is more like a garden than a construction site—continuous care and attention are key to thriving.”
Vasco begins by debunking the myth that software development can be meticulously planned like a construction project. Sharing a story about a failed 18-month software endeavor, he highlights how rigid plans crumble in the face of changing markets. Instead, he advocates for an adaptive, flow-based approach to software development, comparing it to the continuous nurturing required in a garden.
“You can’t plan your year’s meals in January—why would you try that with software?”
Vasco identifies three critical flaws of project-driven software development:
1. Assumption of Stability: Markets and requirements shift too fast for static plans.
2. Front-loaded Decisions: Early decisions often fail to hold up over time.
3. Artificial Boundaries: Restrictive scopes kill innovation and flexibility.
“Software is like a shark—it has to keep moving or it dies.”
Vasco explains how companies can succeed by continuously delivering updates to users. He shares insights from a mobile startup using experiments and feedback loops to keep evolving and delivering measurable value.
“Fund software like a business, not like a construction project.”
Drawing on ideas from Lean-Agile financial planning, Vasco introduces incremental funding as a smarter way to manage development. He points listeners to a previous episode with experts Maarit Laanti and Rami Sirkia for deeper insights.
“Teams need goals, not just backlogs.”
Vasco stresses the importance of giving teams end-to-end ownership of the value they create. The backlog is a tool, but the real focus should be on clear goals that align with business impact. He mentions his OTOG - One-Team-One-Goal blog post.
“Flow-based software development lets us make quick, strategic decisions at the portfolio level.”
By embracing continuous delivery, incremental funding, and goal-driven teams, organizations can elevate agility from individual teams to the entire portfolio. Vasco highlights this as a game-changer for modern businesses, enabling quicker, smarter product decisions.
“Join us in Tallinn to see flow-based software delivery in action.”
Vasco invites listeners to the Global Agile Summit 2025, where real-world examples of flow-based development will take center stage. For those listening during the holiday season, there’s a Super Early Bird ticket available with a 75% discount. Visit GlobalAgileSummit.com for details.
About Vasco Duarte
Vasco Duarte is a thought leader in the Agile space, co-founder of Agile Finland, and host of the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast, which has over 10 million downloads. Author of NoEstimates: How To Measure Project Progress Without Estimating, Vasco is a sought-after speaker and consultant helping organizations embrace Agile practices to achieve business success.
You can link with Vasco Duarte on LinkedIn.
In this BONUS episode, Victor Pena and Michelle Pauk dive deep into the power of language in shaping our work as leaders, Agile Coaches, and Scrum Masters. Together, we explore how the words we use influence relationships, decisions, and the success of Agile practices. From navigating the ambiguity of language to fostering effective communication, this episode provides actionable insights to help you thrive in a constantly changing workplace.
“Language is how we carry culture, but without clarity, it can lead to misalignment and conflict.”
Victor and Michelle discuss how language reflects and shapes workplace culture. Misaligned terminology—like “servant leader”—can create tension between teams and executives. They highlight the importance of achieving shared understanding and the role of language in fostering trust and collaboration.
“Start by asking what others mean by key words—it’s the first step toward alignment.”
“Feedback gets us stuck in the past, while feedforward builds a path to a better future.”
Drawing inspiration from Marshall Goldsmith, we discuss how focusing on future-oriented improvement (feedforward) avoids the blame game and builds positive momentum. As Agile practitioners, shifting from root cause analysis to solution-focused coaching allows teams to move forward effectively.
“Ask yourself, what can we do better tomorrow instead of dwelling on what went wrong yesterday?”
“Words mean different things to different people—be curious about how others see the world.”
Victor and Michelle unpack how language ambiguity impacts communication and decision-making. They emphasize the need to explore the assumptions behind others’ words and how Agile principles like #NoEstimates challenge traditional views on planning and work management.
“When you encounter a term that seems obvious, ask: What does this mean to you?”
“Symbols are the silent drivers of collaboration.”
Semiotics, the study of symbols, plays a vital role in Agile practices like visual management. From story cards to team boards, symbols help teams communicate and navigate their work. The duo discusses how the language of Agile evolves through symbols and how to introduce these effectively in organizations.
“Create visual symbols that align with your team’s values—they’ll anchor your collaboration.”
“What’s trying to come forward in the evolution of Agile?”
While some criticize Agile as outdated, Victor and Michelle argue that its core principles—delivering value faster and improving quality—remain timeless. They explore how Agile can evolve to meet current challenges while retaining its essence.
“Instead of asking if Agile is dead, ask what the next evolution looks like.”
About Victor Pena and Michelle Pauk
Victor Pena is an Agile Coach dedicated to helping organizations achieve business agility. With a focus on innovation, collaboration, and delivering great customer value, Victor transforms practices to ensure long-term success in a dynamic environment.
You can link with Victor Pena on LinkedIn and connect with him via email at victor@vpena.com.
Michelle Pauk is the founder of Streamside Coaching, helping leaders and organizations thrive through change. With over 15 years of experience in Agile environments and certifications from the International Coaching Federation, Michelle specializes in leadership development and organizational growth.
You can link with Michelle Pauk on LinkedIn and connect with her at StreamsideCoaching.com.
Read the full Show Notes and search through the world’s largest audio library on Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes.
Karthiga shares the characteristics of an exemplary Product Owner, emphasizing their ability to navigate ambiguity and support their teams during challenging moments. Great Product Owners demonstrate strong leadership, foster team relationships, and celebrate successes, contributing to a positive and collaborative environment.
Karthiga discusses anti-patterns in Product Ownership, including the absence of strong relationships with developers and testers. A “bad” PO often fails to collaborate effectively within the “three amigos” framework or acts solely as a task scribe. These behaviors hinder refinement and the overall development process, emphasizing the need for active, communicative Product Owners.
Self-reflection Question: How does your Product Owner foster collaboration with developers and testers?
[The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]
Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she’s caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn’t just about the product—it’s about the people.
🚨 Will Angela’s coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue.
[The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]
About Karthiga Seturaj
Karthiga is a dedicated Agilist with over 15 years of experience in the software industry. She specializes in coaching agile teams, emphasizing respect, inclusion, accountability, and outcomes. Her journey spans from Scrum Master to Manager of Agile Coaches, transforming teams and driving impactful change.
You can link with Karthiga Seturaj on LinkedIn.